Post by StellantiNocte on May 20, 2016 1:09:40 GMT -4
Source
This will also have input by me, marked in blue!
As Cicero **A Greek philosopher and lawyer from the late ages of the Roman Empire-due to scandal, he was exiled and later murdered. His writings have very much inspired writers of the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods** once said, "it is not so much excellent to know Latin, as it is a shame not to know it." Latin is the language of western civilization. For nearly two millennia, Latin was the tongue in which the educated communicated. It was the language of the western Church, governments, scientists, nobles, musicians, and even poets. **Western meaning the countries that the Roman Empire conquered-namely countries in the European area**
To be ignorant of Latin is to be cut off from a great deal of history and civilization. Latin was the language of such ancient authors as Vergil and Caesar. It was the language of the great lights of the Church such as Ambrose and Augustine. It was the language of Medieval Europe and greats such as Fortunatus and Aquinas. It is the language of the tender Stabat Mater Dolorosa and the stern Dies Irae that have moved Christians for nearly a millennium. It was not only used by the Church, but it was also the language of science. Sir Isaac Newton's Principia, the foundation of classical Physics and Mathematics is in Latin, not English, his native language. As to recent times, we see the recent encyclical of Pope John Paul II, Fides et Ratio, not to mention the official version of the Catechism are all in Latin.
**Not only this, but Latin is quite literally the mother language of a LOT of modern languages. Spanish, Italian, English, etc, they have all stemmed from Latin or take some words/spellings/rules from Latin. And as mentioned, there are TONS of ancient authors who wrote in Latin--further proving that this language is not only of importance, but this is the language in which possibly the most inspirational writings were written in originally. We follow the philosophies of Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, a Roman Emperor whose philosophies and beliefs can be read in Meditations--the SAME beliefs we follow. We quote Plato, we use Latin in our modern tongue (i.e Et Cetera which is Latin for 'And so on'--i.e in itself is Latin).**
Indeed, to know Latin is to have access to some 2,500 years of literature. There are few languages that can make a similar claim. One major reason is that Latin literature had over a 1,000 year head start on any of today's vernaculars. A second major reason is that Latin, unlike the vernaculars, has been a very stable language over the millennia. While new words and expressions have been added to Latin over the course of time in order to express new ideas and inventions, the language itself has not greatly altered. A good example of the evolution of the vernacular versus the stability of Latin is the Lord's Prayer (Pater Noster). The Latin words to the Pater Noster have not changed in nearly two millennia, but the English words to the prayer from even as little as several centuries ago are nearly unintelligible to the average English speaker. Here are some samples from the last 800 years:
From a 13th century MS in the library of Caius college, Cambridge:
Fader oure that art in heve, i-halgeed be thi nome, i-cume thi kinereiche, y-worthe thi wylle also is in hevene so be an erthe, oure iche-dayes-bred 3if us today, and for3if us our gultes, also we for3ifet oure gultare, and ne led ows nowth into fondingge, auth ales ows of harme. So be it.
From a 14th century MS, No. 142 in St. John's college library, Cambridge:
Fader oure that art in heuene, halewed be thi name: come thi kyngdom: fulfild be thi wil in heuene as in erthe: oure ech day bred 3ef vs to day, and for3eue vs oure dettes as we for3eueth to oure detoures: and ne led vs nou3 in temptacion, bote deliuere vs of euel. So be it.
From a 15th century MS, Douce 246, Bodleian library:
Fader oure that art in heuene, halewed be thy name: thy kyngedom come to thee: thy wille be do in erthe as in heuen: oure eche dayes brede 3eue us to daye: and for3eue us oure dettes as we for3eue to oure dettoures: and lede us no3te into temptacion: bot delyver us from yvel. Amen.
From an English and Latin prymer, Paris 1538:
Our father whiche art in heuen, halowed be thy name Let thy kingdome cum unto us. Thy wyll be fulfylled as well in erthe, as it is in heuen. Gyue vs this daye our daylye breade. And forgyue us our trespasses, as we forgyue them that trespas agaynst vs. And lede vs nat in to temtacyon. But delyuer vs from euyll. So be it.
**The above are from Monumenta Ritualia Ecclesiae Anglicanae, William Maskell, M. A., Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1882.**
Lastly, while it is true there are vernacular translations of many Latin works, it is equally true that an even greater number of Latin works have no translation available. Moreover, and more importantly, reading a translation means that one is at the mercy and whim of the translator and not free to read the document as it was written.
Translations
Translation is more of an art than a science in many cases. The problem of rendering one language into another is always fraught with choices. In my case, unless there was some overriding factor, I have tried to choose as literal translations as possible. My motivation for literalness was that this seemed to be the best way to show off the prayers. At one time Latin was the language that all learned. This is not the case today and it seemed that a literal translation would be more useful to those whose Latin was not perfect. They would have a means to match those parts with which they were uncertain or unfamiliar with the translation directly and thereby have a better appreciation for the texts.
A second choice I made was the use of what might be called Elizabethan English. I chose Elizabethan English for two reasons. First, it can render the Latin a little more closely than modern English usually can. Secondly, an informal survey I conducted indicated that most people prefer the thee/thou to you/yours in prayers.
**Latin's lost its use in the past couple of centuries, but one can definitely agree that Latin is a beautiful and influential language. Latin, though difficult, is interesting and has so much historical value. Compared to English, the language this is most spoken in this day and age, has nothing on Latin. Because Latin was the language of Empires, of nobles, of Kings, and of Queens, I feel that this only adds to its value even more so. And I'm not one for the Church either, but I'm not going to lie to myself and say that it's pretty damned cool that the church, even if it gets more and more contemporary and modern, still continues to use Latin as a precious and sacred language. Latin has not only weaved its way into the church and speech, but also into music. And as a cello player, someone who absolutely LOVES the musical arts, I appreciate that more than anything.**
"The Latin language is assuredly worthy of being defended with great care instead of being scorned; for the Latin Church it is the most abundant source of Christian civilization and the richest treasury of piety... we must not hold in low esteem these traditions of your fathers which were your glory for centuries." -Pope Paul VI, Sacrificium Laudis, 1966
-StellantiNocte
This will also have input by me, marked in blue!
As Cicero **A Greek philosopher and lawyer from the late ages of the Roman Empire-due to scandal, he was exiled and later murdered. His writings have very much inspired writers of the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods** once said, "it is not so much excellent to know Latin, as it is a shame not to know it." Latin is the language of western civilization. For nearly two millennia, Latin was the tongue in which the educated communicated. It was the language of the western Church, governments, scientists, nobles, musicians, and even poets. **Western meaning the countries that the Roman Empire conquered-namely countries in the European area**
To be ignorant of Latin is to be cut off from a great deal of history and civilization. Latin was the language of such ancient authors as Vergil and Caesar. It was the language of the great lights of the Church such as Ambrose and Augustine. It was the language of Medieval Europe and greats such as Fortunatus and Aquinas. It is the language of the tender Stabat Mater Dolorosa and the stern Dies Irae that have moved Christians for nearly a millennium. It was not only used by the Church, but it was also the language of science. Sir Isaac Newton's Principia, the foundation of classical Physics and Mathematics is in Latin, not English, his native language. As to recent times, we see the recent encyclical of Pope John Paul II, Fides et Ratio, not to mention the official version of the Catechism are all in Latin.
**Not only this, but Latin is quite literally the mother language of a LOT of modern languages. Spanish, Italian, English, etc, they have all stemmed from Latin or take some words/spellings/rules from Latin. And as mentioned, there are TONS of ancient authors who wrote in Latin--further proving that this language is not only of importance, but this is the language in which possibly the most inspirational writings were written in originally. We follow the philosophies of Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, a Roman Emperor whose philosophies and beliefs can be read in Meditations--the SAME beliefs we follow. We quote Plato, we use Latin in our modern tongue (i.e Et Cetera which is Latin for 'And so on'--i.e in itself is Latin).**
Indeed, to know Latin is to have access to some 2,500 years of literature. There are few languages that can make a similar claim. One major reason is that Latin literature had over a 1,000 year head start on any of today's vernaculars. A second major reason is that Latin, unlike the vernaculars, has been a very stable language over the millennia. While new words and expressions have been added to Latin over the course of time in order to express new ideas and inventions, the language itself has not greatly altered. A good example of the evolution of the vernacular versus the stability of Latin is the Lord's Prayer (Pater Noster). The Latin words to the Pater Noster have not changed in nearly two millennia, but the English words to the prayer from even as little as several centuries ago are nearly unintelligible to the average English speaker. Here are some samples from the last 800 years:
From a 13th century MS in the library of Caius college, Cambridge:
Fader oure that art in heve, i-halgeed be thi nome, i-cume thi kinereiche, y-worthe thi wylle also is in hevene so be an erthe, oure iche-dayes-bred 3if us today, and for3if us our gultes, also we for3ifet oure gultare, and ne led ows nowth into fondingge, auth ales ows of harme. So be it.
From a 14th century MS, No. 142 in St. John's college library, Cambridge:
Fader oure that art in heuene, halewed be thi name: come thi kyngdom: fulfild be thi wil in heuene as in erthe: oure ech day bred 3ef vs to day, and for3eue vs oure dettes as we for3eueth to oure detoures: and ne led vs nou3 in temptacion, bote deliuere vs of euel. So be it.
From a 15th century MS, Douce 246, Bodleian library:
Fader oure that art in heuene, halewed be thy name: thy kyngedom come to thee: thy wille be do in erthe as in heuen: oure eche dayes brede 3eue us to daye: and for3eue us oure dettes as we for3eue to oure dettoures: and lede us no3te into temptacion: bot delyver us from yvel. Amen.
From an English and Latin prymer, Paris 1538:
Our father whiche art in heuen, halowed be thy name Let thy kingdome cum unto us. Thy wyll be fulfylled as well in erthe, as it is in heuen. Gyue vs this daye our daylye breade. And forgyue us our trespasses, as we forgyue them that trespas agaynst vs. And lede vs nat in to temtacyon. But delyuer vs from euyll. So be it.
**The above are from Monumenta Ritualia Ecclesiae Anglicanae, William Maskell, M. A., Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1882.**
Lastly, while it is true there are vernacular translations of many Latin works, it is equally true that an even greater number of Latin works have no translation available. Moreover, and more importantly, reading a translation means that one is at the mercy and whim of the translator and not free to read the document as it was written.
Translations
Translation is more of an art than a science in many cases. The problem of rendering one language into another is always fraught with choices. In my case, unless there was some overriding factor, I have tried to choose as literal translations as possible. My motivation for literalness was that this seemed to be the best way to show off the prayers. At one time Latin was the language that all learned. This is not the case today and it seemed that a literal translation would be more useful to those whose Latin was not perfect. They would have a means to match those parts with which they were uncertain or unfamiliar with the translation directly and thereby have a better appreciation for the texts.
A second choice I made was the use of what might be called Elizabethan English. I chose Elizabethan English for two reasons. First, it can render the Latin a little more closely than modern English usually can. Secondly, an informal survey I conducted indicated that most people prefer the thee/thou to you/yours in prayers.
**Latin's lost its use in the past couple of centuries, but one can definitely agree that Latin is a beautiful and influential language. Latin, though difficult, is interesting and has so much historical value. Compared to English, the language this is most spoken in this day and age, has nothing on Latin. Because Latin was the language of Empires, of nobles, of Kings, and of Queens, I feel that this only adds to its value even more so. And I'm not one for the Church either, but I'm not going to lie to myself and say that it's pretty damned cool that the church, even if it gets more and more contemporary and modern, still continues to use Latin as a precious and sacred language. Latin has not only weaved its way into the church and speech, but also into music. And as a cello player, someone who absolutely LOVES the musical arts, I appreciate that more than anything.**
"The Latin language is assuredly worthy of being defended with great care instead of being scorned; for the Latin Church it is the most abundant source of Christian civilization and the richest treasury of piety... we must not hold in low esteem these traditions of your fathers which were your glory for centuries." -Pope Paul VI, Sacrificium Laudis, 1966
-StellantiNocte